Learning

ML124: Josh Kaufman on Mastering Complex Projects, Fighting Hydras and Using Stories to Change Your Behaviour

Discover the principles of mastering complex projects, the differences between fiction and non-fiction for promoting behaviour change and the importance of dealing with practical concerns when pursuing your dreams.
Nasos Papadopoulos

Josh Kaufman is an entrepreneur and the author of three bestselling books – The Personal MBA, the First 20 Hours and How to Fight a Hydra.

I first came across Josh’s work when I was getting interested in learning and skill acquisition a few years ago and his book The First 20 Hours is still one of the resources I recommend most to people looking to pick up a new skill.

In a previous life Josh worked in brand management for Procter & Gamble where he led multi-million dollar projects but he left that role to focus full time on research and writing.

Since doing that he’s produced bestseller after bestseller – starting with The Personal MBA, which teaches the key mental models needed for business success and following up with The First 20 Hours, a manual on rapid skill acquisition.  

His most recent work, How To Fight a Hydra, is a fictional story documenting a hero’s journey to fight a monster that explores the uncertainty inherent in any ambitious challenge, from starting a new business to completing a work of art.

In this episode we discuss:

- The differences between fiction and non- fiction for promoting behaviour change
- The importance of dealing with practical concerns when pursuing your dreams
- The skills that Josh stuck with after writing The First 20 Hours

This was a wide-ranging and multi-disciplinary conversation with lots of great insights on a range of topics, whether you want to start your own business or learn a new skill.

Show Notes

  • Introducing Josh [00:34]
  • What was school like for Josh? What was his experience with cooperative education? [02:40]
  • What was Josh’s perspective of education when he entered university? [05:11]
  • How did Josh’s interest in philosophy develop during his years in university? [05:54]
  • What lessons about business and philosophy did Josh take away from his business ethics class? [07:12]
  • Where did the idea of fighting a Hydra as a productivity metaphor come from? [09:48]
  • How does fact-based nonfiction differ from story-based fiction in promoting behavior change in people? [13:11]
  • What has been the most challenging Hydra that Josh has faced over the course of his career? How did he overcome this Hydra? [15:53]
  • How can one think about the trade-off between practicality and idealism when it comes to careers and life-changing decisions? [20:41]
  • Which metaphors in George Lakoff and Mark Johnson’s book Metaphors We Live By has Josh found powerful to reinterpret and apply in his own life? [23:37]
  • How valuable are education materials like books and courses when there is no single solution to learning? [28:44]
  • Which of the learning experiments in The Personal MBA does Josh still do and develop until current? [33:18]
  • What are the advantages of self-publishing versus working with a big publisher? [35:52]
  • What is a question that people ask Josh too often? [39:13]
  • What is one belief that Josh will not question no matter what? [40:21]
  • What is one thing that Josh has changed his mind about recently? [40:45]
  • In ten years’ time, what does Josh think he’ll wish he’d done more or less of? [42:26]
  • Closing remarks [44:29]

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